Resurrection/Corpse Recovery mechanics and you!

Discussion/questions about gameplay (skills/classes/etc), current or suggested.
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Edoras
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Resurrection/Corpse Recovery mechanics and you!

Post by Edoras » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:58 am

I'm looking to get as much input from players/potential players of ArchaicLands as I can as to what everyone thinks about corpse recovery/resurrection mechanics. If you had your pick as to what resurrection and corpse recovery looked like, in both PvP and PvE in a mud, what would you prefer?

Any thoughts you have at all would be welcome, but here's some pointed questions in addition:
What do you think about the SK-style prospect of only being able to recover your gear if you are able to navigate back to your corpse? If you like it, why? If you do not like it, why is that?

What do you think about methods to return to life and their associated costs? Do you think it is appropriate to have methods of returning to life accessible without NPC assistance? If so, why? If not, why not?

Should there be a lighter penalty to dying in PvE versus dying in PvP? If not, why not? If so, why, and do you have suggestions for a way to "lighten that load" without totally removing the "danger" of PvE, or feeling gimmicky or otherwise unpredictable?

I have some thoughts on the matter, but rather than throw them out immediately I want to see if anyone else has any ideas in that vein. As much input as I can get, the better.

Alex
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Re: Resurrection/Corpse Recovery mechanics and you!

Post by Alex » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:50 pm

After much thought on this, I think I am going to find a way for someone to recover all the belongings on their corpse in a similar way to 'call armor'.


It'll be a part of some classes naturally, but I'll make sure it is available for crafting and by NPC services. It will not be able to be used on a corpse that has been killed by a player (or a player group).


This should allow folks to adventure without extreme risk of recovering gear, while also still adding risk to the game (you can lose limbs and items that way, and certain mobiles will eat corpses). I don't intend to have any zone be built on tedium, or with wile-e-coyote mechanics traps and cheap shots, but mistakes happen and sometimes you bite off more than you can chew, so this is a way to recover from that gracefully.


As always, a player doing something for you is the best (cheapest/easiest), crafting second best, and NPC services third best.


If anyone has anything to add/rebuttal/etc please post here. Nothing is ever 'final', but this is where I'm going to try the first stab at.

laeZ1
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Re: Resurrection/Corpse Recovery mechanics and you!

Post by laeZ1 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:34 pm

Hiya... before you read on, just know that my answers are from the point of view of a fountain RPer who doesn't shy away from PvP or PvE but is constantly on the losing end of it PvP, and doesn't take a long time to prepare PvP (gathering potions or enchanting equipment). My answers are also from the point of view of an experienced LARPer (Boffer larp of light, medium, and full contact, as well as Parlor larp), and DM/GM/ST of dozens of tabletop games over the course of about 10 years.
Edoras wrote:What do you think about the SK-style prospect of only being able to recover your gear if you are able to navigate back to your corpse? If you like it, why? If you do not like it, why is that?
I liked the "corpse recovery" missions, and never took it too hard when my corpse was in a location I wouldn't be able to get it back from, or if the people online weren't enough (or willing) to recover it. Helping lower level characters recover their things was fun also, a good break from the inn. That being said, I totally understand why people wouldn't want the "corpse recovery" missions.
Edoras wrote:What do you think about methods to return to life and their associated costs? Do you think it is appropriate to have methods of returning to life accessible without NPC assistance? If so, why? If not, why not?
Returning to life should be possible without the assistance of an NPC, and not just through some riddle quest that you can get wrong, or feel like you're cheating when you ask for the answer from another PC. Maybe making a deal with some kind of demon or something in the afterlife (adding some kind of demon-dealer flag that IMMs could see and play around). I also like the idea you wrote later, about interacting with an NPC priest of your faith while you're a ghost. I also firmly believe that those NPCs not be invincible or untouchable or something.

As for costs, I've been firmly against XP cost for things in general. SK's spirit disorientation was just fine, also, the fact that dying in PvP might result in loss of gear is a cost as well.
Edoras wrote:Should there be a lighter penalty to dying in PvE versus dying in PvP? If not, why not? If so, why, and do you have suggestions for a way to "lighten that load" without totally removing the "danger" of PvE, or feeling gimmicky or otherwise unpredictable?
By the culture of PvP, there is already a lighter penalty to dying in PvE... your gear is much more likely to be there when you get your corpse. I would be against death somehow being different depending on what or who killed you. In fact, I would be more agreeable with death being a bit harsher in PvE. Imagine this: the Qqwazal kills you, then eats your head. Now your helm is part of the loot the Qqwazal will drop next time you fight it. Not all Mobs, but ones in higher level areas... I think this would be neat.
Edoras wrote:I like the idea that resurrecting classes should have access to a spell that can retrieve the corpse of a dead person (Think 'summon corpse') but only if the ghost of said person has given their permission to the cleric to do so, through manifesting to them and imparting the memory of their death. After summoning the body, the standard resurrection can resume.

This will mean that PvP will still allow for full looting to the victor, because there will be a timer between a ghost dying and them being able to provide memory of their death to a cleric. PvE deaths, on on the other hand, will have a much less stinging effect.
I like this idea also, but I think I'd like it better if the spell could only be cast upon a living target (ie, the resurrection would have to happen first). I imagine it would be a little easier to implement this way, and it would give looters a longer window of time to deal with the body.
Edoras wrote:In addition, I believe that player ghosts, instead of being transferred to the afterlife, should instead be transferred back to the temple in their hometown, where an NPC cleric will cast the retrieve corpse/resurrect spell themselves, helping themselves to a percentage of coin on the body before the resurrection, should any be present.
Lovely idea. Nothing to add.
Edoras wrote: If you had your pick as to what resurrection and corpse recovery looked like, in both PvP and PvE in a mud, what would you prefer?
To sum it all up, though I like the "corpse recovery missions", an easier solution would provide more freedom. I like your idea of the ghost arriving at the temple, and I agree that an NPC should be able to grant life. My system would have three layers: The best is a PC resurrection, with just the spirit disorientation, who could then call your corpse. The second best is the NPC resurrection, with the spirit disorientation and the donation to call your corpse. The third (and worst) option would be to make a deal with a demon, giving you some kind of invisible "demon dealer" flag so the IMMs could make some RP around that. The demon would just give you life (with the spirit disorientation), and could not call your corpse. The demon would (probably) only be used if your NPC priest were slain.

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Edoras
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Re: Resurrection/Corpse Recovery mechanics and you!

Post by Edoras » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:23 pm

Thanks for the input!

I also always liked corpse recovery missions myself when the chance arose, but the hard-to-avoid ugly downside of that (if no one can help you, you're hosed) is a pretty harsh penalty that is ultimately outside of your control. That's why I made the suggestion of having ways to return to life, albeit at obviously a greater cost than having player assistance would grant.

The idea of having corpse retrieval performed after the fact is also interesting: I hadn't even considered that, but I like the idea of making people have to look their dead body in the face and then bury themselves after each death.

I'm still personally against almost any PvE mechanic that carries with it the potential to lose all or some of your gear. Perhaps that's mostly because of my experience with SK where you could easily spend weeks or even months working on a kit, and I know Alex is not intending for 'regearing' to require that much investment. Still, most of the times when I felt like quitting SK was due to losing my entire kit to a PvE mechanic. It feels instantly unrewarding, and I'd rather have systems that require you to always prep to get -to- any area regardless of success or failure, so that the 'worst-case scenario' is that you lose your consumables you needed for the trip without achieving the reward you went there for, but you're still fighting fit even if you die.

Having the priest be able to be killed which forces a separate alternate means to life that isn't gimmicky (a la oracle questions as you described) is also a good fallback.

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